Wikipedia:Help desk

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March 8

Asking

I have some obscure singles from the album article, and it doesn't have references. So I want to ask if other editors can find a source for it due to my technogical problem. But I can't find where to ask, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Music here is almost dead so I'm frustrated. Camilasdandelions (talk!) 02:58, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

Hello, Camilasdandelions. An editor called Binksternet has a lot of expertise regarding reliable sources about popular music. Try asking him for help. Cullen328 (talk) 08:24, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

Responding to ping. Camilasdandelions, I see that you have received a notice of a song article nominated for deletion: Winter Bird (song). If you can't find good sources to establish notability for a song article, the unfortunate answer may be that the song does not deserve its own page. In that case, you can tell the reader details about the song at the album article. Binksternet (talk) 16:30, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

Harriet Martineau

Ref number 46 is all wrong - I added in a page number. Please fix. i am unable to 9again!) . Sorry 05:16, 8 March 2025 (UTC) Thank you.

@Srbernadette: Please read the documentation for {{cite book}}, particularly Template:Cite book § Examples which shows the correct syntax when using the |page= parameter. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 05:59, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

I tired - but I could not do it. I will stay away form editing for a while - sorry. Srbernadette (talk) 06:31, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

@Srbernadette, it wasn't hard to fix, you had "page 156" in parameter instead of "page=156" Cmr08 (talk) 06:37, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

Sharing a page

Is there a straightforward way to share a page, like you routinely get in for news websites for example? Chalky 08:30, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

The Wikipedia app has sharing via the three dot menu in the top right hand corner.[1] Most mobile web browsers have this as well. For desktop view, you may have to copy and paste the link.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 08:42, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

confirmed-extended-protected talk pages??

I can well understand why certain Wikipedia articles need to be fully protected to prevent malicious editing, but I am beside myself to understand why the talk page for an article should ever be restricted. But this is exactly the case for the article Gaza Genocide in the conversation about which I would like to be included, as I have high interest and knowledge on this subject, but I am template-prohibited. So my first question is why can't I even particiapate in the relevant discussion of the subject as an editor, even if the article page stands in need of protection?

My second question has to do with appealing the protection level of the page: I am told that before appealing it I must first discuss with the editor who protected it, but the template does not contain any reference to that editor that i can see.

Thanks.

Kenfree (talk) 09:23, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

@Kenfree Here is the page protection information. (I had to go via Page information in the Tools menu, then scroll down to where it says "View protection log" and click that.) It was protected by Daniel Case. Musiconeologist (talk) 10:35, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

Thank you! Kenfree (talk) 16:10, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

Kenfree Note that talk pages related to the Arab-Israeli conflict are often protected if they draw an excessive amount of inappropriate postings by users who are not permitted to make edits related to the topic(non-extended confirmed users). You don't yet have 500 edits, so you shouldn't be involved in extensive discussion about the Arab-Israeli conflict. The only thing you are permitted to do is make very uncontroversial edit requests, that don't require extensive discussion. 331dot (talk) 16:20, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

This policy feels out of alignment with Wikipedia's slogan that it is an encyclopedia anyomecan edit. Not only can newbies not edit certain pages, they cannot even engage in discussion about it. Like a seasoned editor once said, this is newbie biting Kenfree (talk) 16:32, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

@Kenfree: The Arab-Israeli conflict, moreso than any other topic area, tends to attract partisan editors who couldn't care less about Wikipedia policy and trolls/provocateurs on either side who are created solely to make life miserable for those actually trying to work in it in good faith. There's no less than seventeen Arbitration cases focused on it, the most recent of which closed in January. —Jéské Couriano v^_^v ^{threads critiques} 16:36, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

I can well believe that, but why should I be sanctioned for their behavior? Kenfree (talk) 18:11, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

To be blunter: the I/P topic area is one where there is no shortage of people wanting to make edits. This is a few years outdated, but as of then a grand total of approx. .025% of the English Wikipedia's articles were under ec‐protection or greater. That's two-and-a-half-hundreths of one percent. If you want to find something to work on, I'm sure you can do so among the other 99.975% of articles. In the event you can't, I"m afraid you'll have to look elsewhere. --Slowking Man (talk) 22:46, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

I may be wrong, but I don't think there's any protection level available between semi-protected and extended-confirmed, or any user category between autoconfirmed and extended-confirmed. So if something more than semi-protection is needed for a talk page to remain usable, extended-confirmed has to be used. Musiconeologist (talk) 23:00, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

Re:this is newbie biting. It is not biting. There is nothing personal about it. It is simply a standard policy that applies to all new editors. The goal is to protect the time and effort of other volunteers who contribute their free time to Wikipedia. Lova Falk (talk) 12:15, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

How to cite interwiki

Anyone have any thoughts on how I should express the citation which now appears (directly in the text, not a footnote) as :(Ovid, 7.265–268) in the article The Tempest? I can see the advantage of linking to wikisource when the text is available there (although, in passing, I note the article doesn't do the same with Shakespeare). But all other quotations on the page have a footnote instead and for consistency (and in the spirit of WP:CITEVAR) I feel this should, too. I'd add that there's a secondary source at the end of the parallel quotation so I don't feel it needs another. AndyJones (talk) 16:00, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

@AndyJones: you could try {{Cite wikisource}}. TSventon (talk) 16:52, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

(edit conflict)

If I understand what you are asking, you might write:

{{cite book |author=Ovid |date=1567 |translator=Arthur Golding |chapter=[[s:Metamorphoses_(tr._Golding)/Book_7|The Seventh Booke of Ouids Metamorphosis]] |title=The. xv. Booke of P. Ouidius Naso, entytuled Metamorphosis, translated oute of Latin into English meeter |location=London |publisher=Willyam Seres |via=[[Wikisource]]}}

Ovid (1567). "The Seventh Booke of Ouids Metamorphosis" . The. xv. Booke of P. Ouidius Naso, entytuled Metamorphosis, translated oute of Latin into English meeter. Translated by Arthur Golding. London: Willyam Seres – via Wikisource.

I don't know what the 7.265–268 means; neither 265 nor 268 appear in the linked wikisource document.

Booke 7 is a 'chapter' and {{Cite wikisource}} doesn't handle chapters well so I chose not to use it here.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 17:06, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

Brilliant, thanks. Will try that. I have 2 comments:

• 7.265-268 must mean, I think, book 7 lines 265 to 268.
• Should I enclose the text you've laid out above inside ref tags to make it appear as a footnote? AndyJones (talk) 17:12, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

You may.

If 7.265–268 is really line numbers, that is very reader hostile given that there are no line numbers in the linked source. Copying the text into an editor with line numbers, I find that the lines 265–268 are on page 165:

Upon the bare hard ground, she said: O trustie time of night
Most faithfull unto privities, O golden starres whose light
Doth jointly with the Moone succeede the beames that blaze by day

—Trappist the monk (talk) 17:22, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

PS to the above I tried the latter and it seemed to work well. It's probably more in keeping with the way the page is sourced to use {sfn} so I'll try that instead shortly. If I have more queries I'll post back here failing which this is resolved, and thank you @Trappist the monk: and @TSventon: for your help. AndyJones (talk) 17:27, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

PPS Agree with @Trappist the monk: that the line numbers are potentially reader-hostile so I haven't used them. Although the lines cited by you above don't match those quoted in the article, they do appear on that same page, so I have linked to it. The way I've cited it can be seen at this section so if anyone here has any comments on how I can improve it then let me know or just make a bold change. Failing that, thanks again, and this query is resolved. AndyJones (talk) 17:48, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

Userboxes tutorial

I've read WP:Userboxes but just can't quite get the hang of how to work with them ... (1) to add existing ones to show project group membership with correct spacing and alignment and (2) to create unique personalized ones.

So I'm looking for a practice tutorial. Is there one somewhere? Augnablik (talk) 16:09, 8 March 2025 (UTC)

@Augnablik: I am not aware of a userboxes tutorial. What would you like to achieve? Since userboxes are templates maybe H:TQG is of interest? Polygnotus (talk) 11:50, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

@Polygnotus, thanks for the helpful reminder that user boxes are actually templates.

As far as what I’d like to achieve, I’d say just basic ability to:

• take an existing userbox and place it wherever I want it without it throwing off other text on the same page — which I know involves being able to control spacing and possibly making dividing lines
• create a new userbox from scratch if I need to

A good tutorial would require us to do a number of tasks related to the above objectives and provide useful feedback on each task that we submit — ideally with several requests to do the same task rather than only one request per task. This would be to make sure that succeeding on one request wasn’t coincidental. Augnablik (talk) 15:14, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

@Augnablik: Frankly, the easiest way to make a "unique personalized" userbox is to find one on someone else's user page that resembles the appearance you want and copy the code to your sandbox, then try out changes in wording, colors, etc., until you're satisfied with it. (That's how I made the top one on my user page.) You can then copy the final code to your user page. With regard to arrangement, many users seem to use {{Userboxtop}} and {{Userboxbottom}} to create a vertical column on the right side of the page (like the Babel boxes already on your user page). Deor (talk) 14:37, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

Ooh, that may be as good as a real tutorial, @Deor,if there isn’t one! I took a look at your User page and copied the first userbox you alerted me to, plus the larger box with — I guess — Middle English. I’ll play around with them.

For someone who’d be “confused and frightened being in my world,” as your top userbox declares, you seem to do very well! Thanks. Augnablik (talk) 15:30, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

@Augnablik: Just as an aside, the text in the wide box at the top of my user page is Old English, from the poem called by my name. Deor (talk) 15:41, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

Well, at least I had the language correct, even if not the vintage … 😅 Augnablik (talk) 16:29, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

@Augnablik, What I did to make my custom userbox was copy the 'How to construct' table and give it to Microsoft Copilot. I then told it to use wiki markup, which it surprisingly understood, and told my userbox requirements. It did its job pretty well, and I had to make only minor adjustments later on. I originally got this idea as I had used it to make my signature 🙃 (And no, I don't use AI for making edits) TNM101 (chat) 17:21, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

March 9

Question about stats

Is there any list of most viewed articles of poor quality (like below C-class)? Grumpylawnchair (talk) 03:23, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

@Grumpylawnchair: Not that I know of, but if something like that exists the people over at WP:VPT would know about it, maybe ask over there. See Wikipedia:Statistics#Page_views. Polygnotus (talk) 12:52, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

@Polygnotus: Thank you! Regards, Grumpylawnchair (talk) 14:22, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

@Polygnotus: Btw, I found what I was looking for: User:DataflowBot/output/Popular low quality articles (id-2) Grumpylawnchair (talk) 21:47, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

Excellent, thank you! Bookmarked. Polygnotus (talk) 04:18, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

Citations for dead links

I want to know how to do a web cite to a URL that I know is dead and only in the web archive. As best I can tell, Wikipedia requires a URL, but it also requires that the URL be distinct from the ArchiveURL. Dr. Conspiracy (talk) 04:16, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

Kwdavids ("Dr. Conspiracy"), here is a Wayback Machine scrape from 2008 of the first of three web pages that add up to a 1950 article from Time. As I view the page (Firefox, on a computer), at the very top (by which I mean the very top of the page, not the window) I see "http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0%2C9171%2C812777-1%2C00.html". That's what you're after, unless I misunderstand you. (I could also have derived it by chopping off what's at the front of the longer, Wayback Machine URL.) -- Hoary (talk) 08:15, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

Hi, @Kwdavids (I wish people wouldn't use signatures that completely fail to match their usernames: it makes it harder to reply).

Assuming you are using a citation template such as {{cite web}}, you should still give the original URL in url =, but also specify

url-status = dead and

archive-url =

Hope that helps. ColinFine (talk) 11:42, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

Musk derangement syndrome - article creation

Recently we've seen the rise of the term "Trump derangement syndrome(TDS)", which returned to prominence during the 2024 U.S. presidential elections and present times. Later, I got informed about a new type of term; namely the 'Musk derangement syndrome'. If you're already well-versed with TDS, you can imagine how little difference it really is to this one. Anywho, I'll briefly explain it: MDS is essentially a way the political right (Republicans) have described democrats who are irrationally reactionary to Musk, his antics and associates. It was originally coined in 2022, as far as I know, but its use has been sparse, so I'm doubting of whether or not this article is relevant or should exist.

I was informed through social media (like Youtube), which generally isn't a reliable nor relevant source to base articles on, but I did some research and found further instances of the term being used (including by government officials, for commercial uses "Etsy" and on news platforms), and as aforementioned, in 2022.

I've based the article heavily on the TDS, following a similar format.

Well, I wonder if anyone can help me out finishing the article for submission, alongside finding more citations for the text. If there's a lack of sources then the article won't be worked on further, instead I'll be waiting for the phrase to become more prominent, if it does. I also need people who are politically diverse to ensure the page is transparent and neutral, up to Wikipedia's standards, you know. But please do not delete anything without explanation and without discussing it on the talk page. Any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you. Pradedovići (talk) 17:11, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

Why not just submit it, Pradedovići? -- Hoary (talk) 22:38, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

I have, but I still think the article may be lacking in some areas, which is why I asked for help with those issues. Pradedovići (talk) 07:17, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

Pradedovići, I suggest that you read the WP:NEOLOGISM section of Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a dictionary. Cullen328 (talk) 07:20, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

March 10

Unsure how to proceed with reporting potential vandalism

Recently, on the Sao Paulo page, there has been an IP user who may be vandalizing the page with different IP addresses. I checked Sao Paulo's history and there have been a few recent edits by some IPs that seem to publish edits under the summary "fixed typo" but actually make some strange edits that ruin the entire page. The most recent happened roughly 45-60 minutes ago and basically blanked the entire page without necessary removing its content. I'm aware of reporting vandals with administrators, but as this is across various IPs and seemingly hasn't been reported as of yet, I'm unsure how I should handle this. The only idea I have as of now, as it seems it has been happening frequently with this page, is extend protecting it, but I'm not sure how to do that. Any advice? SonOfYoutubers (talk) 00:46, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

@SonOfYoutubers You can request page protection at WP:RFPP. Ultraodan (talk) 03:05, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

Thank you! SonOfYoutubers (talk) 03:21, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

Harriet Martineau

Please repair reference 12 - I am unable do so and i am confused, thank you. Srbernadette (talk) 02:43, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

@Srbernadette: This is because, once again, you introduced an extra digit into the |date= parameter. Someone else has fixed it, but I hope that moving forward you will be extra careful when adding dates. —Tenryuu 🐲 ( 💬 • 📝 ) 03:39, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

Srbernadette, on 12 October, Tenryuu suggested that "you should consider writing down what other editors have been saying so that you have a 'common mistakes made' note that you can reference to the side of whatever device you're using." On 25 October, I suggested that you edited while logged on (as Srbernadette), that on your user page (of course User:Srbernadette), you created and maintained a list of links you find useful (Template:Cite web#Date would be among these), and that whenever stuck, you started by consulting the relevant item(s) in your list of useful links. You made no comment on either suggestion; perhaps they didn't interest you. -- Hoary (talk) 07:12, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

how to appeal page restriction

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

I am trying to initiate an appeal to a page restriction that falls under the Palestine/Israel conflict, the talk page for Gaza Genocide, which is extended-confirmed protected. I lodged my appeal at ArbCom, but was told this was inappropriate, but the alternate pages to which I was directed are filled with text, much of which is crossed out, and I cannot make heads or tails of them. Would you please tell me clearly on which page I should lodge my appeal? Thank you! Kenfree (talk) 03:38, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

Hi Kenfree. Looking at your edits, I don't see where you lodged your appeal at ArbCom. Could you link to that edit of yours so we can see what advice you were given there? DMacks (talk) 04:57, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

DMacks, the edits in question were made at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection/Decrease, and Kenfree's request was denied. That is not ArbCom, by the way. Cullen328 (talk) 05:33, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Running InternetArchiveBot on a really big page?

How do I run InternetArchiveBot with "Add archives to all non-dead references" turned on without timing out? Every time I try to run the bot on 2024–present Serbian anti-corruption protests page, I get timed out. The page has more than 700 references. No.cilepogača (talk) 13:15, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

I know nothing about InternetArchiveBot, No.cilepogača, and only comment here because hours have passed since you asked and nobody else has commented. What I'd do is copy the source to a window of my preferred text editor (Geany, as it happens; but any decent text editor should work), and chop the file into perhaps five chunks of what look like a similar size. (No need to measure them.) Now, for each of the five: (i) cut the chunk from your text editor and paste it into your sandbox, (ii) run InternetArchiveBot on the content of your sandbox, (iii) cut the chunk from your sandbox and paste it into your text editor window. Once you've finished that, copy the whole thing from your text editor window, paste it into 2024–present Serbian anti-corruption protests (of course replacing what was already there), preview, and if it seems OK, "publish". Done. ¶ Incidentally, are all those references needed? I notice that an assertion as humdrum as "On 1 February, Madonna supported the students on Instagram" comes with five references. -- Hoary (talk) 11:55, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

March 11

Manage connected applications

I was surprised to see "CK's audio creator [1.0] Publisher: Commander Keane" at Special:OAuthManageMyGrants. I have never worked with OAuth and never heard of this tool. Maybe it is related to six years ago when I did many audio recordings with code at en:wikt:User:Commander Keane/Audio workflow. Perhaps I was messing around with OAuth at some stage. The naming "CK's audio creator" sounds too sophisticated for something I would come up with though. Is there a way to track down why or how this was added? Other items on the special page include "Wikimedia Commons Query Service [1.0]" and "Earwig's Copyvio Detector [1.0]", which make sense. Commander Keane (talk) 09:01, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

@Commander Keane Each item on the list at that page has the option to revoke your approval. My list doesn't mention CK's audio creator, so it can't be vital. I suggest you revoke the permission: the worst that can happen is that you will have to re-authorise it again if you needed it in future. If you want to delve further into that particular tool, you'll need to ask on the talk page of Help:OAuth at mediawiki. Mike Turnbull (talk) 12:19, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

Page move reverting check up

I just reverted a page move for I believe the first time. Will someone please check if I forgot anything or messed it up? It was the article and the talk page: [2] Thank you in advance. Rockfang (talk) 10:12, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

Rockfang looks good to me (and phone was miscapitalised as well as being unnecessary Jimfbleak - talk to me? 11:46, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

Template issues

Hi all, I'm working on a new draft, and am attempting to use Template:Infobox ship class overview for the lead. The template, for some reason, does not want to work. It displays it in a weird form as if it is text, and continues to try and kidnap (for lack of a better term) the lead text below it. I've done some poking around and am unable to find a solution, hence why I am asking here. Thank you in advance. -Emily (PhoenixCaelestis) (talk) 12:38, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

@PhoenixCaelestis: it seems {{Infobox ship class overview}} should be part of {{Infobox ship}} so I have added the latter and it seems to work. Some of what I have added is probably redundant. TSventon (talk) 12:51, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

{{Infobox ship}} is not supported by the WP:SHIPS community. What you added to OP's sandbox is the supported infobox form. Yeah, that form is peculiar, but is inherently flexible. There was a TfD to replace the wikitable/subtemplates with a single template that uses Module:Infobox. The result is that the templates languish in the TfD holding cell.

—Trappist the monk (talk) 13:09, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

Thank you both, @TSventon and @Trappist the monk. I will update the parameters from here. Thanks for solving my issue! -Emily (PhoenixCaelestis) (talk) 14:16, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

Something broke map overlays in Infoboxes

Dear Helpdesk -

Some recent change (last few days) broke map overlays in Infoboxes. In 2020 I wrote an article that uses an overlay on a map in an Infobox to outline an area. As of a few days ago, the outline is rendered but is shifted to N of where it should be on the Infobox map. The same outline's position is correct on other maps in the article that aren't in an infobox. Who should I alert to report the problem? (There have been no changes to the map data since 2020.) Osoraku (talk) 18:32, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

Hello, @Osoraku. In the first instance, bring it up at WP:VPT. ColinFine (talk) 18:40, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

Image in wrong place

I need help here. SergeWoodzing (talk) 19:26, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

Hi SergeWoodzing. I fixed it with {{Stack}}.[3] PrimeHunter (talk) 19:47, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

Thank you! SergeWoodzing (talk) 19:50, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

Re-naming a WikiSubProject

If it was mooted to rename a sub wikiproject, what effect would this have on articles that carry the former project name in the box at the head of their talk pages? I can't find any advice on this. Tony Holkham (Talk) 21:44, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

@Tony Holkham: The box is probably made by a WikiProject template which can be edited to display the new name on all the talk pages. We can say more if you name the sub project. It's best to be specifc in questions. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:38, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

@PrimeHunter - Thanks for that. I didn't name the sub project because it is only a suggestion so far, but it is the RNLI Task Force subProject of the Water Sports Project - see here Tony Holkham (Talk) 22:42, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

@Tony Holkham: {{WikiProject Water sports}} would be edited to produce something else. A new parameter name might be added instead of {{WikiProject Water sports|RNLI=yes}} but RNLI would probably be kept as an alias so talk pages which use it wouldn't have to be edited. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:17, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

@PrimeHunter - OK, thanks. One of us will come back to this query if there is support for the change. Cheers, Tony Holkham (Talk) 23:23, 11 March 2025 (UTC)

What happened to WP:AFI?

Not much activity, nominations open for multiple years. Anyone here noticed? RanDom 404 (talk) 22:14, 11 March 2025 (UTC)